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Talk:Emperor of Mankind

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From what i have heard the parts about the illuminati and the senseis are not regarded as true fluff/lore by GW and hence should not be included as anything related to what has actually happened in the timeline of the Emperor of Mankind.

The same could also be said of the Emperor being born in Turkey. Or of the Imperial Palace being built on top of Nottingham. Or indeed of countless other "old" bits of "fluff". Simply because GW prefers to indulge in Retroactive Continuity, do not presume we should do likewise. The previous history of the Emperor is never directly denied, simply forgotten. If we remove it, we are denying others that original idea. At present, GW want nothing but mystery and unravelled and untied threads, the fact is this information WAS Canon, and still IS until such time as it is actively denied or rewritten. The Illuminati and the Sensei are a part of the GW Mythology, heck there was a whole page devoted to a "heretical cult" with their beliefs in just the previous edition of 40K. There does exist, in the fiction, and in reality, a desire to cover it up, but frankly, this old mystery, passed on from older fans to new simply aids in the rich tapestry of 40K history...Or would you rather just say "The Tyranids Ate Them Then Buggered Off" Squats style?

Cause, y'know, the Nids are just going to pop up into the centre of the Galaxy, devour the Squats and then skulk off without a word, right?

The Illuminati/Sensei idea has been denied by a member of the design team, in an interview I was reading just the other day. I'll find it and link it here. One of the 'Horus Heresy' novels gives a mention of the Emperor's birthplace, which I will find when I re-read them. As for the Tyranid/Squats thing, Hive Fleet Leviathan is in the areas of the galaxy where the Squat homeworlds were, entering from below the Galactic disc - look at the current Codex: Tyranids.

The Squats thing being eaten by the Tyranids was a fluff based way of saying they are not coming back in their old form. The real reason was something like they were not selling well/were too close to fantasy or a whole host of other reasons concocted over the past years. Squats are dead, and will stay so in the form they were. As for the Illuminati, if they have been denied in an official interview then yes, we need to state this and state the origin of the information, and make it obvious.--Jonru 10:12, 13 June 2006 (CEST)


TZRock: From "Tales of Heresy", I gathered the Imperial City to be in the Himalayas. It would only be fitting for the Emperor to tear down the tallest moutain range on Terra to build his throne.


        • Suggestion - Delete at Will****

Perhaps we should sometimes list what fluff is from what generation of books? I dont know if that is even reasonable, but its the only idea that I could put foreward.

        • Suggestion - Delete at Will****

This is a very good suggestion. How do you think we should go about doing it? Perhaps to have a level 3 heading (===Insert Heading===) underneat it for the source(s) and then put the main sources in a section at the bottom, or perhaps put 'Source: Whatever' in italics or something. Nice work! :)--Jonru 10:12, 13 June 2006 (CEST)


Delete at Will ... I assume you are referring to the part about the Emperor's origin and the part about the Illuminatie? I'd like to point to the article about the Emperor of Mankind in the English Wikipedia. They have a couple of sources listed in their article... perhaps this article can be used as a basis for this one? -- JoeneB, 16:09, 13 June 2006 (CEST)

About Emperors picture

I fixed it up a bit, it should look better now.

-Guardsmen5

Emperor's Sword

Is there any mention of the name or origin of the flaming sword the Emperor wields?

Thats from the Horus Heresy art books. I will have to look it up (the artist described why he put some of the pictures). The Emperor would be able to channel his power through anything, so I doubt its really unique on its own. SanchiTachi 04:11, 7 July 2007 (CEST)

hmm...

The Emperor dosen't look too healthy on the golden throne now does he... XD --Endeavour 18:22, 25 July 2008 (CEST)


Golden Throne

At the Timeline M41. There is written: Tech Priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus discover failures in the mechanisms of the Golden Throne that are far beyond their repair. 999.M41 - White Dwarf 342us. Meaning that the Golden Throne is failing.

The big question I have is:

What effect will it have on the Emperor ? And the Imperium ?

I've also read about the Loyalist Primarchs:

Leman Russ stating, that he will return for the final battle. For the Wolf time.

Vulkan stating, that he will return in the time of the Black Dragon.

Roboute Guilliman, is slowly recovering. (Impossible inside a stasis field )

Lion El'Johnson, is sleeping, perhaps waiting for the final battle ?

Corax, is disappeared. ( Not classed as dead )

Jaghatai Khan is trapped inside the warp. ( Not classed as dead )

Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus and Rogal Dorn are dead.

This means that we still have 6 Primarchs perhaps alive.

Perhaps the Final Battle is coming soon ? Since the Golden Throne is failing.

Permit me a bit of un-serious-ness when I say "TEH END IZ NEER" On a more serious note, in the 5th edition rulebook preview on the GW site, the 41st millennium is ending, and it is also noted that the Age of the Imperium is ending as well. Perhaps, it is so. --Rye 21:16, 14 August 2008 (CEST)

I haven't read the 5'th edition rulebook, nor bought it yet. Emporio

http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer40000/preview1/1/ The Time of Ending is mentioned on the first page, "It is a dark time for the Imperium as the Age of Mankind draws to an end." on the second, "For the first time, the timeline of the 40K universe is laid out as it plunges forward into the Time of Ending." just after that. I think something big is going to happen. --Rye 14:38, 16 August 2008 (CEST)
Yep, after the Age of the Imperium, the 5th edition book shows the beginning of the Time of Ending, from c750.M41 onwards.--Rye 14:22, 21 August 2008 (CEST)
With the 40k MMORPG coming out soon, it does make sense - if the MMO were to lock people in to an existing timeline with no opportunity to affect the universe around them, even in a minor way, GW would be instantly alienating people who wanted to play an RPG to immerse themselves in something "bigger". By bringing forms of closure in the new edition, it allows for the MMO to directly affect a galaxy which is already changing. Hakster
And hopefully, it won't go the way of WoW, which pretty much amounts to killing off every named character with a half-assed explanation for doing so (usually: it mad, bro). I wager, if Blizzard did it, we'd be killing the Emperor of Mankind in the second expansion ;) Mikael Grizzly 21:06, 29 August 2008 (CEST)
Could have been worse - could have been EA. Hakster
I haven't read the fifth edition yet, but it makes total sense. Between the Tyranids, the Orkz, all the other Xeno races and the constant heretical activity and internal squabbling, it is absolutely astounding that the Imperium held as long as it has. In truth, I doubt it matters very much, it's nothing we didn't already know was going to happen sooner or later. I wouldn't say it's "The End", but I definitely think that times are going to get a lot tougher before they get better. --Lygris 15:06, 8 September 2008 (CEST)
If the Golden Throne is failing, then wouldn't that mean that the Emperor, being mostly Shaman, would die and be reincarnated? (perhaps through the Star Child or another way?) And wouldn't at least a few primarchs learn about this and try to get to Terra? --theemperor'schampion 18:08, 9 October 2009 (CEST)

Nitpicking here. Time still moves within a statis field, although mind numbingly slow. Couple that with 10,000 years and a primarches advanced healing anatomy and it is possible (unlikely yes, but still possible) that Guilliman could heal and come back. Let's ignore the fact it's equally likley that he's dying in there though, eh? BrotherKeef 03:40, 11 June 2013 (CEST)

Okay, my two cents:

  1. It could be possible that the Golden Throne is failing because the Emperor awakes. Anybody ever thought of that?
  2. As stated in A Thousand sons, the Golden Throne is an artifact the Emperor found in a desert. Combine that with the fact that it was somehow able to control the Webway and the Golden Throne is possibly Xeno-technology. Maybe the Imperium should ask the Slann or the Eldar for help for the repairs.
  3. The novel Mechanicum mentions the psyker Dalia Cythera, who has the talent to understand and repair any malfunctioning machine by being able to contact the knowledge inside the Akashic Records of the Warp. The novel also mentions that she became the new Guardian of the Dragon during the Horus Heresy and had that position for the next 10,0000 years, so she's probably still alive by the time the Golden Throne fails. She repairs it and after a time of even more horrible wars and misery everything goes back to normal and the "Endtimes of the "Imperium" turn into the "Rebirth/Renaissance of the Imperium". Ha!

You see, it could be the end-times of the "Imperium as we know it", not of the Imperium or Mankind per se. --DetlefK 11:01, 11 June 2013 (CEST)

"Other Accounts"

I think this article is very very disjointed. The Emperor's background from 1st ed as far as I know has not been invalidated. In fact has only been confirmed by the recent HH books. Similarly the statement "these books are not part of the standard canon history and contain details that exist only within the card game version" is untrue according to both GW themselves and this site's own guidelines. The fact that many fans don't like it, myself included, unfortunately does not mean it isn't 'true'.

I suggest that all of this is moved into chronological order in the main article itself, leaving the other accounts section for background that has been explicitly invalidated. Such as the Illuminati/Sensei/Star Child (I thought it was still valid, but if we have a source saying it isn't we'll have to go with that).--Phunting 18:29, 10 January 2009 (CET)

I disagree, we should leave it as it is. It probably hasn't been cited thoroughly, but I understand the theories do come from Realm of Chaos and the Inquisition War novels. As you said, it may not be part of the latest edition canon, but as a wiki, we should cover all historic information from all the editions of Warhammer.--Vindicta 21:29, 10 January 2009 (CET)
I'm not sure I follow. I'm not suggesting getting rid of anything, but re-structuring it so it flows (IMHO) better. I've knocked up what I think is a more logical order here.--Phunting 23:57, 10 January 2009 (CET)
Ok, now I follow you.. I believe the section of the 1st edition should be left alone, as there is still dispute in the community whether it counts as canon. Thus it is best to make the differentiation. I'm more inclined to see the third edition integrated with the main article, but it must be clearly referenced for people to see its original source.
Regarding the HH books section, bear in mind this is not the BL novelisation of the Horus Heresy series! It is a series of artbooks created for the Horus Heresy card game; I will make this correction later. It had been stated clearly that: "These books are not part of the standard canon history and contain details that exist only within the card game version." But as a wiki, we should still keep this section to show background information derived from different gaming systems based on the warhammer universe.--Vindicta 00:47, 11 January 2009 (CET)
I agree with you on the citation, and will work to get those up and put the 3rd ed stuff it. I do realize that about the HH, but I'm not sure the "These books are not part of the standard canon history and contain details that exist only within the card game version." is correct. The canon article on this website clearly states "9. Collectable Card games licensed by GW." as canon. So whilst whomever wrote that may not regard it as canon, both GW and Lexicanum clearly do.--Phunting 02:16, 11 January 2009 (CET)
With the 1st ed stuff, I agree that the Star Child is dubious these days, but I didn't think there was a belief that the Emperor's origins were no longer correct. It has even been referenced recently in the HH books.--Phunting 02:21, 11 January 2009 (CET)
There are references to the shamans in the HH series? I agree that historic information about the Emperor in the HH books supersedes all previous works, and the GW designers have acknowledged from their website that they would leave BL to deal with the history of the events surrounding the HH (at least in the 5th ed rulebook). Even though it may be official canon according to the Lexicanum, there are inconsistencies (if you check out talk:Horus Heresy (Artbook Series)) between both the HH novelisation and artbooks. To make sure the inconsistencies do not confuse the reader, this merits the use of a separate section as in the current article. As said, I'm more inclined to see the third edition section integrated within the main article, and after rereading the first section, perhaps it too can be integrated, but I am wary of the talk about shamans (unless it has been mentioned in the HH novels).--Vindicta 02:52, 11 January 2009 (CET)
No, admittedly not. I meant the Anatolia references, and the Emperor being active throughout human history. I agree there are inconsistencies, but what GW publication doesn't have that? Personally I believe CCG background should be taken as canon where it is not directly contradicted (ie everything not mentioned in the HH Artbook talk), but I can live with the CCG background being left then too if there are doubts. I still find this article too disjointed, and I will try to knock up a version that compromises with what you have said.--Phunting 04:53, 11 January 2009 (CET)

Fantastic, this article has bugged me in much the same way as Phunting for ages, and today when I finally decided to play with it, I look at the talk and find that the idea has recently been discussed, excellent. I clearly agree with Phunting, and think that all info on the Emp from the various editions should be compiled into one 'telling of the tale' unless it contradicts - then just have that stuff at the end under a Canon Conflict banner like we do for every other article where the situation arises.

Anyway, I hope we can go in this direction. The article is far from anywhere near complete. Thanks! --Mob 00:41, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Golden Throne

Any particular reason why the Golden Throne doesn't get its own article? --Digganob 16:27, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Looks like they got merged to prevent repetition. However, splitting it back out sounds good to me.--Mob 16:57, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Quotes

Does this section belong on this page? I have a few concerns over it, and before it is removed I'd like to get some other thoughts on it. My first concern is, since it appears to nothing more than a transcription of the source material, with little to no commentary to support it, it really doesn't fit with the encyclopedia style of the page. My second concern is, it appears to be nothing more than a copy paste from its source, there's the issue of GW's copyright. And lastly, as it discussing in part, the issue of the Illuminati, and from what I can gather, it is probably not canon, there should at least be some sort of disclaimer for this section stating so.--Odinsgrudge 00:40, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Removing the section; users please comment if in favour of retaining it. Thanks.--Mob 01:56, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
It's probably too late for this but, I'd like it to stay. I was the one who put it up on the page and my opinion on it is that it gives insight into one of the most enigmatic entities in the entire canon. Most things on the wiki are direct transcriptions, look at the entire description for the Chaos Champion page, that's a direct quote from one of the guidebooks. While it may not fit with the page style, perhaps it could be moved to Quotes Imperium as it's pretty significant. As for the last argument, I'll quote Inquisitor Grobmeister when I argued something similair. "There is no voting. If it is published by Black Library it's official. --Inquisitor S., Großmeister des Ordo Lexicanum 08:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC) ." This was on the discussion page for Ahzek Ahriman if you'd like to check it out. I agree with there being a disclaimer if it's to be kept on the page, but I'm willing to comprimise on the quote being moved to Quotes Imperium. --Cowgeneral 21:11, 25th May 2011 (Central)
Most things on this wiki shouldn't be direct transcriptions and if you see a page that is such a copy+paste job please flag it so we can rephrase it, thanks. Putting it into a Quotes page sounds good. As to 'voting', correct, we don't vote; we discuss appropiate/best formatting of how to input canon information. Thus the above request for people to comment. Please don't be offended by my removal of your contribution. Over the years I've been contributing to this project I've discovered people like to talk about things a lot more than just doing it; it is better to do, then fix/improve/revert in collaboration with other users than complain and do nothing. I happen to agree with both yourself and the user who raised the concern; it does not fit with this page, but it is an interesting piece of information. Therefore, as a big quote, it would be quite informative and appropiate to place the information in a Quotes page. It is still viewable in the page history if you want to copy it over. Thanks for your comments.--Mob 00:50, 27 May 2011 (CEST)
Certainly, thanks for clearing all that up for me, I appreciate it. I'll be sure to add it in to the "Quotes Imperium" section sometime in the near future. Thanks again!--Cowgeneral 13:18, 31st May 2011 (Central)

Why is it specified that he made a bargain with the Chaos Gods?

We know what Horus was told, but not why or for what reasons Emps went into the gate on Moloch... Leonnatus (talk) 23:17, 17 February 2017 (MST)