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Defenders of Ultramar (Graphic Novel)

On the Defenders of Ultramar page, you added Chaplain Clausel's first name as Judd. Where is this first mentioned as I dont think that it is mentioned in the comic.--Ytokes 12:26, 24 June 2011 (CEST)

Its found in the novel Nightbringer, I believe. Commisar Gegnillum 14:26, 24 June 2011 (CEST)

Correct, Chapter Four of "Nightbringer"; it does not appear in the pages of "Defenders." --Proteus77 19:09, 24 June 2011 (CEST)

Ah ok, thanks guys--Ytokes 00:31, 25 June 2011 (CEST)


Hey mate, hope it's ok to suggest a couple of things? You do good work here, but there's a couple of things you may want to do to help 'future-proof' your articles. To use Barbaden as an example, while I know it's unlikely that he'll be mentioned anywhere else, we still like it if each paragraph/fact receives a citation, so that if another source useful to the article is found, we can add that info in and cite it accurately. We also like page numbers (or chapter numbers) so that the info in the article can be checked easily.

Secondly, the lex hasn't got a style guide, admittedly, but we do like to try and keep pages looking reasonably similar. Ideally, some poor buggers will one day have gone through them all and style-matched them. While I don't see that happening anytime soon, when creating new pages, it's best to try and stick to another comparable/common format as much as possible so that someone in the future has less rewriting/restructuring of your words to do. Less work for them, more of your work left up. Just suggestions, though we really do want pagenumbers given even if the article is single-sourced. Thanks!--Mob 23:09, 3 October 2011 (CEST)

I will add the citations, as soon as I can locate my copy of "Killing Ground." Thanks!--Proteus77 23:15, 3 October 2011 (CEST)

Ultramarines Category

Hey man, I've noticed that you tackle alot of the Ultramarines Novels content. I also noticed that there doesn't seem to be a category pertaining to this series. An example would be the Sabbat Worlds Crusade Category, which links everything Gaunt's Ghosts related together. Just a suggestion to add the text Category:Ultramarines (Novel Series) to all Uriel Ventris related articles etc from now on.

Should make it a bit tidier aye?--Ytokes 00:36, 13 October 2011 (CEST)

Gaunts Ghosts Novel Series Category

Doesnt the Category:Sabbat Worlds Crusade fulfill the function of the above?--Ytokes 04:18, 15 November 2011 (CET)

Perhaps, but I'm trying to achieve some uniformity; if the Ultramarines novel series gets its own sub-category under Category:Novels, then it makes sense to me that there should be similar categories for the Space Wolves, Ciaphas Cain, and other novel series.--Proteus77 19:38, 15 November 2011 (CET)

Plus, a quick survey of the Sabbat Worlds Crusade Category page shows that, as a list of places, characters or events in the novel series, it isn't anywhere near complete.--Proteus77 01:04, 16 November 2011 (CET)


Hey, your sourcing on the article doesnt seem quite clear enough, ie what paragraphs are from where and what pages are referenced. Other than that though, thanks! Was an interesting read.--Ytokes 00:07, 6 January 2012 (CET)

It's actually not my article. I just renamed it from "Hive Fleet Jormungandr" to achieve uniformity with the other Hive Fleet articles (Behemoth, Kraken, etc.). Correcting the sourcing and other issues will have to wait for another day.--Proteus77 01:32, 6 January 2012 (CET)

Oh, woops, sorry then!--Ytokes 00:03, 7 January 2012 (CET)

Silly Observation

You must really love Mari Magot, thats a hell of alot of work you've done on that article! :p Thelemur 03:53, 27 January 2012 (CET)

a) I'm a perfectionist; b) yes, I do; c) Sandy Mitchell said it himself in his foreword, he loves planting his supporting characters and watching them grow; and d) I try to be thorough, and in my opinion any character who appears in more than one novel rates a reasonably thorough article - I'll leave significance judgments to someone else. :-) --Proteus77 09:10, 27 January 2012 (CET)
Tbh - Im very tempted to get the novels just cos of this article, i like my warrior women :) . Thelemur 01:35, 28 January 2012 (CET)
In a way, I'm just warming up until I tackle the central characters of the series - Amberley, Kasteen, Broklaw, Sulla, Jurgen, and of course Cain himself. BTW, if you haven't read any of the Cain novels yet, try this quote from The Traitor's Hand (Novel): Cain: (writing) I've only got room for one lethally dangerous woman in my life./Amberley: (footnote) Which I choose to take as a compliment...--Proteus77 01:43, 28 January 2012 (CET)

Im liking the description "Dark Comedy/Action-Adventure", the 40k universe does often lack a touvh of humour - think I'll ask for the books for my birthday :) Thelemur 01:45, 28 January 2012 (CET)

Tell me about it; I finished one Cain novel and then I read Steve Parker's Gunheads (Novel) - pretty darn depressing. If you ask for the books, grab the Omnibuses, it's the best deal.--Proteus77 01:58, 28 January 2012 (CET)

Novels Portal

In a thread on the forum, I said I'd make an English language novels portal, the french template which I'll copy is here. It might be a while before I get round to it (we have quite a few things going on with the general pages which I think take priority) but as you are obviously more knowledgeable about the novels than myself i'd appreciate any thoughts you had, cheers. Thelemur 06:08, 28 January 2012 (CET)

Love the work you did on the Novels list - the books portal is now at Portal:Publications. If you want to make any changes go for it, or if you have ideas on how things could be improved please msg me. Thelemur 04:50, 3 February 2012 (CET)


This is a shot in the dark - I'm looking for a quote for the Games Portal page, the only thing I could think of was something about regicide. I dont suppose you have any idea what part of the Eisenhorn Trilogy talks about it? I'm prob going to have to skim through the whole trilogy to see if there is an appropriate quote, but I just thought I'd check with our resident novels expert first :) Thelemur 06:39, 11 February 2012 (CET)

I haven't yet read the Eisenhorn Trilogy (it's on the way); I know that regicide is mentioned in the opening chapters of Ravenor Returned (Novel), and also intermittently in the Ciaphas Cain (Novel Series) - for instance, in The Traitor's Hand (Novel) and, briefly, I think, in Traitor's Gambit (Short Story). Do you have access to any of these?--Proteus77 08:22, 11 February 2012 (CET)
I've got the Ravenor ones, I'll check them and Eisenhorn, thanks. Thelemur 15:35, 11 February 2012 (CET)

Sourcing style clarifications

Hey man, can I just check in with you to see if I've missed some discussion on how we do this again? Referring to the changes in sources in the batte of prospero artice. I see the authors got put back in; are we doing this again? We stopped putting them in a while back as it was deemed weird to add authors of novels and not the primary authors of codexes, rulebooks, etc. Secondly, has the way Anthologies are to be referenced changed? As a short story is basically a chapter of a novel (chapters are permissable cites instead of page numbers) then citing the whole story has prieviousy been accepted. Have they to be exclusively page-numbered now? Cheers!--Mob 20:28, 15 February 2012 (CET)

I can't speak for other contributors, but my habit has always been to include authors of novels and short stories, and no one has objected until now; I don't see the point of including the authors of codices and rulebooks, since these are usually multiple. I can only speak for myself, so you might want to check with an administrator.--Proteus77 20:31, 15 February 2012 (CET)
Oh, I'm not objecting, I was merely curious as to why the format was changed to the older style and wondered if I'd missed a policy decision what with not being able to be on as much as normal. If it's just personal pref, then fair enough, although you don't have to put all that in if you don't want to. Thanks!--Mob 04:38, 7 March 2012 (CET)


Thanks for spotting my missed entries in the category section. You would think I would have learned seeing as I have already had one article nuked because of that. --Sanguinarius 00:35, 24 February 2012 (CET)

Etolph Cycerin‎

Please add proper footnotes immediately or I will delete this article. Unsourced new articles are exactly what we are trying to avoid in the Lexicanum. --DetlefK 12:19, 29 February 2012 (CET)

24 hours, Your Worshipfulness.--Proteus77 19:07, 29 February 2012 (CET)

Survival Instinct

Hey, thanks for the edit to Survival Instinct. I don't want to get too fussy, but after adding in the descriptions to the Necromunda novels, I think that they don't merit stub status any more ("A stub on Lexicanum is defined as a very short article of one paragraph or less. Generally, stub articles are short, vague sentences (or even a single sentence) that fail to cover all but the extreme basics of a subject."). It's still a work in progress (I'd really like to write a proper summary after reading it), but I've got it up to four paras plus the fairly extensive number of links and info data. Also, on a minor point, the neatness of the wikicode (and the reason that the infobox has to be on the same line as the Description header) is technical, as it prevents the double space under the lead section.

So, I don't want to flame ya (I've noticed you do good work around here, far more than me) but I'm tempted to undo the edit... --IXS=][= 22:41, 12 March 2012 (CET)

I understand; so I will undo the edit, but would like to leave some kind of tag, such as "incomplete" as a reminder to you or someone else to expand the summary. What do you think?--Proteus77 23:33, 12 March 2012 (CET)
I already removed it, we probably need to come to an agreement over where incomplete and stub tags should be used - I think they get put on too many pages. In theory almost ANY page could be classed as incomplete - I dont think it is sensible to add them to pages unless there is specific info missing and even then I think an "Attention" tag works better - as we can then mention what info is needed specifically. The Lemur 00:22, 13 March 2012 (CET)
Thanks fellas. As it's the summary that needs expanding, how about using Template:Substub in that section? It's not intrusive, and is targeted so that people know what is needed: it could work for other articles too. Does that work for you? We could make a similar (one liner) template which also has what's needed to improve it (i.e. Subattention).
I also see Lemur's point that so many of the articles (even the ones that do the job) could be considered incomplete. There's also the fact that GW loves to make a dozen loose ends for every one they tie up (C'tan for example): I reckon Lexicanum would benefit from small articles on these subjects (even if that's only one paragraph) just stating all that's known about these things so if someone looks it up they can check if anything else has been written on it or not. Technically these might be considered stubs, but since they're also complete it puts them in an odd status: perhaps we could come up with a name/template/category for these "loose ends" too. What do you think? --IXS=][= 18:23, 13 March 2012 (CET)

Book template

Hey, I noticed your edits to the Book infobox, and I've made a mock up with your ideas and a couple of my own. As well as adding the Preceded by and Followed by fields, I noticed that the publication portal template doesn't always play well with the infobox, so I've automatically included it here above the infobox in a way that stacks them well: this should also save a bit of time & space on each article as you'll only need to include code for the infobox to get both (this might only cause a problem if the infobox is being used in different places in an article, each of which will have the portal link as well -- not necessarily a bad thing I think). I'm also trying to get the article's title to become italic as Wikipedia does... but having a bit of trouble with that part at the moment!

If you want to try it out, use {{BookTest|Name etc.}}, or check out Lexicanum:Immaterium where I've put up an example (yeah... another Necro novel lol). --IXS=][= 04:21, 14 March 2012 (CET)

Just noticed you're using the BookTest in articles... I'm going to transfer the changed over into the main {{Book template (which also doesn't have the condemned italic titles!) so that there aren't two competing templates, and you can use that one directly. --IXS=][= 00:32, 20 March 2012 (CET)
Okay, then I'll hold off on editing other book articles until the template is changed. By the way, what time zone are you working in? I'm on Pacific time.--Proteus77 00:34, 20 March 2012 (CET)
lol, GMT (and an awful sleeping pattern!). Changes done, and if you like I'll start working from the bottom of this list up. --IXS=][= 00:37, 20 March 2012 (CET)
I'll work to the end of the Heresy series, otherwise, be my guest. Thanks.--Proteus77 00:40, 20 March 2012 (CET)

Ok, I reckon I'll just fix up the ones that have a Pub portalbox conflict for now, and go from there. --IXS=][= 01:23, 20 March 2012 (CET)

Battle Template

Mate, shall we try out the new battle template, rather than dumping the wikicode into articles? I'm (sadly) quite excited to see what it looks like, and it'll update if we make changes.--Mob 02:23, 17 March 2012 (CET)


I was thinking of creating a page where regular users could discuss the various projects we are all working on together, rather than have the discussions spread over a hundred diferent talk pages, what do you think? The Lemur 03:10, 20 March 2012 (CET)

Sounds like a good idea, but would this transfer the onus to each user to check in regularly? Or would messages posted on this page be directed to individual recipients?--Proteus77 03:13, 20 March 2012 (CET)
Oooh - i hadn't though that far ahead! I was just going to make an extension of my talk page and invite some peeps to contribute. Tbh - I wouldnt have the 1st idea how to make messages posted on the thread be directed to others. I just thought it might be handy for disscussions like the Quotes and Battle portals etc. Often it's the same 4 or 5 people contributing to alot of articles, just thought we could use the page as a sort of "group hub". The Lemur 03:19, 20 March 2012 (CET)
Actually - if we just add the page to our watchlist that will let us know of changes. The Lemur 03:28, 20 March 2012 (CET)

This is the message I've sent a few other regular guys -

Kill Team Project

Hi, since it is frequently the case that a small group of users end up working on various pages/projects together - I thought it might be an idea to have a page where we can discuss our various ideas together in one place, rather than over lots of different talk pages. I set up a page here for us to do that. I dont know if this idea will take off, or if anyone will be interested, but I thought it was worth trying - let me know what you think. The Lemur 03:41, 20 March 2012 (CET)

Iron Warriors Chronology

I like the new Chronology section mate, but watch out, I may well steal the code for something like it in the Gothic War (Novel Series) article at some point! --IXS=][= 23:13, 3 April 2012 (CEST)

Picture crops

Hey, would you like me to crop the book covers in the battles of hydra cordatus and tarsis ultra infoboxes? To remove the areas with text?--Mob 00:32, 11 April 2012 (CEST)

Please do, I lack the ability to do so at the moment. If you're offering, could you do the same with the cover photo being used in the Reclaimers article? Thanks!--Proteus77 00:47, 11 April 2012 (CEST)
Done. Just did straight crops, sorry they aren't in higher res - couldn't see any wallpapers or anything on the BL site.--Mob 01:12, 11 April 2012 (CEST)


Both images are from this:


I don't have access to it myself unfortunately so I can't give you the page number for M'kar, but that picture is him.--Harriticus 04:11, 17 April 2012 (CEST)

Images Cats

It appears that some of the images that you uploaded for the Neil Roberts page are missing their categories, could you please add the relevant cats please?--Ytokes 07:51, 23 April 2012 (CEST)

Thanks for reminding me.--Proteus77 07:52, 23 April 2012 (CEST)
Just noticed there are some images in the uncategorized images list which you uploaded. Could you skim through them and fix up your errors please. Also, you are not the only one i am reminding, noticing that quite a few of our regulars are forgetting about categories.--Ytokes 12:59, 12 August 2012 (CEST)

New citing format

Hey. I'll fix up the requested cites on Ahriman's page in a moment (ugh, reworking stuff over and over, but I can't resist improving a 1KSons page ; ) I take it we're using that citing template from now on? I like it .--Mob 15:44, 12 May 2012 (CEST)

Picture request

Here you go. I think we also have a thread in the forum for requesting images. Here stuff sometimes gets lost... --Inquisitor S., Großmeister des Ordo Lexicanum 12:38, 11 June 2012 (CEST)

Leman Russ with Sisters of Silence.jpg

Thank you!--Proteus77 19:04, 11 June 2012 (CEST)

Image Categories

Aeronautica Imperialis is an Epic-scale game - please don't categorise regular, 40k-sized aircraft as Aeronautica Imperialis miniatures - they are perfectly fine as Images (Warhammer 40,000 Miniatures - Orks - Vehicles). --Rolz

Reliquarium in Honour the Chapter

Sorry for posting all of that but this huge mindless work and i just can't do it case by case, that got me nowhere
However could you not put them as deathwatch items (at least not without further discussion), as the book specifies that these items are specific to their chapter even if they are in the Deathwatch armouries.--Ashendant 02:42, 24 October 2012 (CEST)
Could you clarify that? I don't have the book, so are you saying they are listed in Deathwatch Armoury, or listed as Deathwatch items in the book?--Proteus77 02:44, 24 October 2012 (CEST)
Exact Quote is:
"The following is a list of Relics for nearly fifty Successor Chapters, including their histories and powers. As with all Chapter Relics, they are only ever provided to a member of the Chapter to which they belong."
Meaning they are in the armouries of the Deathwatch but they are only allowed to be used by members of the respective chapter which the relic comes from. They even add a note that Black Shields can't use these items(even if they once belonged to that chapter) because they are essentially strangers to their chapter.Exact quote on that note is
"BLACK SHIELDS AND RELICS: There are warriors in the Deathwatch who no longer claim allegiance to whatever Chapter they originated from, and fight solely for the Long Watch. These Black Shields, detailed in RITES OF BATTLE, may have once belonged to a Chapter that provided Relics for the Deathwatch. However, they have severed this bond, and are now strangers to their former Battle-Brothers. As such, Black Shields may only ever use Deathwatch Relics."
--Ashendant 02:50, 24 October 2012 (CEST)
So they're in the Deathwatch Armoury, but technically still "belong" to the parent chapter, I understand. What I meant by my earlier question is, are the article texts just a direct quote from the item description in the book?--Proteus77 02:51, 24 October 2012 (CEST)
Also, are you just copying the text from the book? Because I think that's discouraged, unless you put it in quotes.--Proteus77 02:44, 24 October 2012 (CEST)
Yes i'm doing that. But it's only because i've tried case by case and got heavily exhausted with that so instead i put WIP tags and will be updating all of the pages step by step (Formatting all of them in one day, adding sources the next)
I will eventually rewrite the texts, i just need time and not do it case by case(because that takes a hellish long time)--Ashendant 02:55, 24 October 2012 (CEST)
Fair enough. Out of curiosity, how are you doing it? I am facing the same delays with the Blood Ravens Armoury.--Proteus77 02:56, 24 October 2012 (CEST)
Before i was doing it case by case but now i'm gonna do it by steps one by one.
Today i did the copy from the texts and added wip tags
Tomorrow i will format(add proper banner, categories and source section)
After that i will add sources together with any images there
Then i will end with rewritting the texts(although the rewritting will probably be pretty minimal, there's so much you can do with such small text without betraying their meaning) which will probably will take several days, but at least i won't have to deal with the minuta of the other stuff to distract me.
I think that answers it.--Ashendant 03:11, 24 October 2012 (CEST)

Black Library Weekender 2012

Though I would pop my head in and say hello after meeting you in person at the weekender. :) --Jimmy Carmine 14:56, 5 November 2012 (CET)

Hello to you too, Jimmy! A real pleasure meeting you at the weekender, and I look forward to working with you on the wiki, and (hopefully) seeing you at next year's Weekender.--Proteus77 21:06, 8 November 2012 (CET)

Minor Space Marine armoury

  • I've been doing the armouries for each chapter in their respective chapter pages, as it was previously suggested to me, but i doesn't feel quite right. What do you think? Should i make a page for minor chapter specific items? or put in the deathwatch page? or do you have another suggestion?--Ashendant 13:19, 9 November 2012 (CET)

CSM quotes

Sure I'll get on it tomorrow.--Harriticus 06:53, 14 November 2012 (CET)

Thanks!--Proteus77 06:54, 14 November 2012 (CET)

Head Quotes

I've noticed that we've put a few head quotes up on pages. Which type of pages specifically are we giving them to? Tanooki1432 07:55, 15 November 2012 (CET)

BA Citations

If you link me to the articles in question sure.--Harriticus 05:08, 29 November 2012 (CET)

Sepharan, Exalted Herald of Sanguinius, Adanacio, Incarael, Bellerophon, Karlaen, Machiavi, Castigon, Sendini, Raxiatel, Phaeton (Blood Angels), Zedrenael, Sendroth, Borgio--Proteus77 05:39, 29 November 2012 (CET)

Characters (Gods)

Please do not remove this category from god characters just because they have another category that's similar: [[Category:Characters (Gods)]], this category is to list all characters that are gods, the other is to list every topic related to eldar gods, including things that are not gods. Thank You.--Ashendant 14:18, 8 December 2012 (CET)

my bad dude

my bad on that warbringers pic mess up - I always forget that. Thanks for the reminder! --augustmanifesto 05:20, 10 December 2012 (CET)

Update to Iron Knights

Thank you so much for sorting out the formatting of this article. I am new here and thought I'd help out with fleshing out some of the articles with flavour from the Black Library where it comes up but this is my first time meddling with a wiki so all help is appreciated. Cheers --Fluffy Wok 11:51, 21 December 2012 (CET)

RPG Info

So I'm currently compiling a list of all information in the RPG that I have, if you want you can ask me for anything in User:Ashendant/Sources and I'll provide a direct citation of it.--Ashendant 02:41, 27 December 2012 (CET)

Could you please fix the Deathwatch Chaplain article, and merge the two pairs of articles (Deathwatch Watch Captain/Watch Captain) and (Watch Fortress/Watch Station)?--Proteus77 02:52, 27 December 2012 (CET)
Hmm maybe I can provide a direct citation in the "Chaplain" case and I can probably fuse the Watch Captain articles. Although in the last case I don't think I can because I get the feeling that they are different.
Currently I'm compiling the list and I want to have at least three books compiled before I restart editing.--Ashendant 03:15, 27 December 2012 (CET)

Main Page

Hello Proteus77.
I think the english Lex has a problem, it is lacking in administrators. There are only eight users with administration rights, and seven of them are german (and don't really work here). The only english one ist TheLemur, and he is semi-retired. Because of that, noone cares about the Main Page, which is without any doubt the most important page. The last edit is more than half a year ago and is by me. It seems that you are the most active and busiest authors in the english Lex, so I wanted to ask you if you wouldn't be interested in becoming and administrator keep it up-to-date. Of yourse one can also do much more with administration-rights... but the Main Page would be probably your most important job.
I'm sure that Inquisitor S. will agree if one asks him. --Fira 14:52, 5 January 2013 (CET)

Planet Pages

Hi Proteus77,
Why are you moving the first couple of sentences of planet articles below the factfile bit? (eg. Minerva) It creates an area of blank space between the top of the page and the factfile, which doesn't look good. Imho the first couple of sentences serve as an introduction to the page, giving a brief overview of what it's about and should be at the top of the page so they get read first. Tdf4638 16:39, 19 March 2013 (CET)

I was trying to go for uniformity, but agree with you that it looks better the other way. I will set about re-doing the pages I've changed.--Proteus77 17:23, 19 March 2013 (CET)
Thanks for the quick reply. I hope it doesn't take you too long. Tdf4638 17:42, 19 March 2013 (CET)


Hi there. I was inordinately happy to stumble across your work with CAT:Sources(Subject). I'm working some drafts for the various issues we have with old sourcing and guidelines articles, yet had no idea we had such a good resource sitting in the background. It would be perfect to add into LEX:Sources, but it lacks a single reference point at the moment. I was wondering, is it possible to create an overarching "Sources" category? Something I've never done is construct Cat pages, but once I'm set on the right path I'd be fine to do the legwork on adding in the Cats on each page.
My preference is for setting out an intermediary level (probably along similar lines to the groups): CAT:Sources > CAT:Sources(Portal topic) > CAT:Sources(Subject). I do like things to be sorted neatly but I'm also wary of nesting Cats inside Cats inside Cats, for accessibility's sake. However, I think having discrete groups would help when looking for a source.
Any advice on Cats?--Prattlebarge 15:35, 3 June 2013 (CEST)

I am working on making the categories complete and consistent, for all articles; however, Odinsgrude was the one who had the bright idea of creating a source category. I'm not sure what you mean by creating an "overall" source category. Could you give me an illustrative example?--Proteus77 19:21, 3 June 2013 (CEST)
Ah, I think I've expressed it more complicatedly than need be, then. Essentially what I was thinking of was a top-tier category that all other Sources categories would be sub-categories of (and exactly along the lines of what you're already doing with other categories). For example, the current categories run like this:
  • Category:Background
    • Category:Species and Factions
      • Category:Imperium
. . .
        • Category:Space Marine Legions
          • Category:Ultramarines
...which is how I imagine you're laying out the sources categories. For sources, however, I'd recommend having another tier at the top, as such:
  • Category:Sources
    • Category:Sources (Background)
      • Category:Sources (Species and Factions)
. . .
        • Category:Sources (Space Marine Legions)
          • Category:Sources (Ultramarines)
Although having thought that through, you were probably planning on doing that anyway. I realise also that it would probably shunt out "Background" as the top tier, because I can't imagine needing sources for anything else but in-universe information (of course, it may be simpler to use the Portal categories instead; I'm not sure what your plans are there). In effect, it would allow us to recommend the "Category:Sources" page as the starting point for most source queries. --Prattlebarge 09:27, 4 June 2013 (CEST)

Citation edits.

Hello Proteus77,

I'm relatively new to Lexicanum and I've been doing (What I assume to be) a good deal of work on the Salamanders related articles. I presume you, as a longer standing member, are just reviewing the articles that most recently been revised as I often noticed that after I have edited an article, you come in afterwards and make a few minor edits and such. However, the question I wanted to ask you was related to citations. I've noticed most of the minor edits you make after mine are just little citation issues, but, and I hope I'm not being too abrupt or rude here - it's not my intention, they appear a little... inconsistant at times.

For example, after a recent edit I made to add in the source of 'Nocturne' to the Fugis page, you proceeded to change a line from this:

to this:

Now, I know I hadn't edited the above source, but it seemed a little odd considering you didn't also change my addition of:

I hope I don't sound like I'm nitpicking, it's just I'm at a bit of a loss as to how I can keep a standard across all the pages if you are changing bits. Now, it goes without saying that I bow to your wisdom of how the articles must be laid out as you'll know better than me, but if you could give an indication of in what way I'm going wrong, or why you have changed parts, then it would help me greatly in ensuring my edits adhere to the best possible standards and guidelines.

Many Thanks,

Adranus 17:14, 9 July 2013 (CEST)

Thanks for pointing that out, I actually did mean to change both lines. A citation to a larger volume, such as an omnibus edition or an anthology, is appropriate when you are citing page numbers, just because page numbers can vary between different editions of the same novel. Also, bear in mind that page numbers are not essential, but chapter citations are (except when citing short stories, which do not have chapters).--Proteus77 18:36, 9 July 2013 (CEST)

Ah no that's fine. I think i'm adhering to guidelines as all my citations are essentially in the format above: Novel, Series/Anthology/Omnibus, Author and then sub-citations of Chapters. I don't do page numbers A) Because the citation help page told me to avoid them and B) As you stated page numbers differ between editions. Cheers for the reply mate, don't worry about changing it as I'm going to add bits and re-vamp Fugis anyway. My Crusade to update all the Salamanders stuff is getting there so hopefully it'll be all updated soon...

Many Thanks

Adranus 22:13, 9 July 2013 (CEST)

Hey again,

I really hate to be a pain in the arse, but I've got to query another change you've made to one of my citations. It's in the Pellas Mir'san article, and you've changed the citation from this:

to this:

Now, I know I really sound like I'm nitpicking, and I really do apologise for it, but I gather you've changed it simply because Chapter 3 is the only citation, hence a sub-citation is not really needed. However, for the sake of it looking standardised, would it not be better to keep the sub-citation as it fits in with the Salamanders references above in terms of style? I'm really sorry that I'm nitpicking, but I'm finding it hard to understand why almost every time I cite something in a style that is the same as the rest of previous editors citations - it's suddenly changed to something quite different.

Sincere apologies for my confusion,

Adranus 22:07, 10 July 2013 (CEST)

Where there is only a single citation to a source, a stand-alone sub-citation is not necessary, and looks sloppy; if this turns into multiple citations in the future, please feel free to change it to "a, b, c," etc.--Proteus77 23:18, 10 July 2013 (CEST)


Hello, Proteus77.

Сreating articles about Strike Force Ultra, I stated the pages of sources - as I saw them in the epub file. So, the only source of this information - is an e-book (for example, in epub format). How I should properly affix links, if each epub-reader reads them differently and the page numbers in each case may not coincide? May be - not specify the pages at all? (modified 24.07.14 21:00 (GMT+3))

Horus Heresy Series Cover Art concerns & ULTRAMARINES MOVIE companion graphic novel

Hey there. You seem to be rather adept at editing articles here. I was wondering if you could help out with something? Specifically, by taking care of the 'cover art' concerns that I delineated here: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Talk:Horus_Heresy_Series#Cover_Art I'm not terribly versed on the 'image upload'-policy for this site, which is why I'm hesitating to do it myself.

Also, on your user-page, you mentioned that you had ULTRAMARINES-THE MOVIE. Do you also have the Hard Choices 'What happened on Algol?' graphic novel that came with the movie? I've been wanting to hear more about it.

--MercWithMouth (talk) 21:05, 11 May 2015 (MDT)

I will take a look at the page you highlighted. Yes, I do have the "Hard Choices" graphic novel, but haven't read it through yet.--Proteus77 (talk) 10:35, 12 May 2015 (MDT)


[1] Don't make edits like that again. That is vandalism. Midnight Sun (talk) 20:26, 24 January 2016 (MST)

If you want to link, link. They don't have separate pages so direct wiki links is useless. Midnight Sun (talk) 20:27, 24 January 2016 (MST)
Please take a look at the formatting for other anthology pages that feature previously published stories, and follow their example.--Proteus77 (talk) 20:29, 24 January 2016 (MST)
I wrote most of the pages and the formatting. Half of the wiki links you put in were wrong or redirects. You crossed the line and without good cause. Be more careful next time. Midnight Sun (talk) 20:37, 24 January 2016 (MST)
Considering that you've been a contributor since December of last year, and I've been contributing for a good four years, and written most of the novel, short story, and anthology pages from scratch, try to pause and consider before you make such declarative statements. Also, the point of the redirects is to send the reader to the publication where the story first appeared, and save the writer from having to write "first published in..." over and over again.--Proteus77 (talk) 20:47, 24 January 2016 (MST)
I had two prior accounts, both known to Larry Vela the owner. Second, you did not write most of the novels. I did. Most of the novels were blank. And no, the point of your redirects was to send people to the wrong pages, like daemonology that had nothing to do with the story. You wanted to cause a problem. You have done very little besides some wiki links, poor formatting, and stubs. If you are going to interfere with other people who are actually building the place, then that is a serious problem. So, you have a choice - contribute to filling in the missing content or stop interfering with those who are. And save the writers? It was a quick copy and paste and already done. Midnight Sun (talk) 20:52, 24 January 2016 (MST)
[2] Sigh, short stories go in quotes. Novellas and novels go in italics. Midnight Sun (talk) 20:57, 24 January 2016 (MST)
According to whom?--Proteus77 (talk) 20:59, 24 January 2016 (MST)
Chicago Style, AP Style, every single citation guide ever. [3] and that is beyond the pale. The index of the book is clear and the stories were listed in order. If you persist, I will have to ask for Larry to ban you. Knock off the games. Midnight Sun (talk) 21:01, 24 January 2016 (MST)
To the best of my knowledge, Chicago style has not been the manual of choice for the site since its creation. If your next task is to go through each and every novel and short story citation on the site and make it conform to the same style, please say so and I will stay out of your way. But right now your page is just that much harder to read.--Proteus77 (talk) 21:03, 24 January 2016 (MST)
Every style guideline is the same. Short stories have always been quoted while full books have been italicized. Most of the site conforms to that very rule. Nothing is hard to read about that page. It is just you being difficult because something got into your head where you would rather cause problems then fill in many of the blank pages, and I don't mean with meaningless templates. Midnight Sun (talk) 21:06, 24 January 2016 (MST)
When you say "blank pages," do you mean creating an individual page for each short story?--Proteus77 (talk) 21:07, 24 January 2016 (MST)
And as to "most of the site," the plain fact is, no, it doesn't (e.g., Shadows of Treachery (Anthology), Angron (see the citations), etc.) If you feel that needs to be corrected, please say so and, if there is a consensus with the owner and one or more of the administrators, please post it.--Proteus77 (talk) 21:10, 24 January 2016 (MST)
You link to two pages that are clearly wrong and you don't even bother to fix them? Seriously? Obviously, the mix formatting of quotes for one and nothing for the novella should have tipped you off. And if you aren't using just the name (i.e. putting in the disambiguation link - (short story), then there is no reason to have either). Additionally, You didn't even link to the right Angron here. Midnight Sun (talk) 21:18, 24 January 2016 (MST)
And yes, plenty of blank pages. Of the above, here are those still needing to be filled: [4], [5], [6], [7]. Only one had the information [8]. [9] This one was close but malformed things. Midnight Sun (talk) 21:20, 24 January 2016 (MST)
And the stories for Angron are blank - [10], [11], and [12]. Midnight Sun (talk) 21:21, 24 January 2016 (MST)
No, I am linking you to two pages that are typical of the site, and show you that the style you decry as "wrong" is the one that has been used in the vast majority of pages, for the last several years. So either the whole site is "wrong," and has been for the last 3-4 years, but no one has seen it that way except you, or your insistence on using the Chicago manual style will necessitate an overhaul of all the pages. As to the second charge, I deliberately linked you to Angron the biography page, rather than Angron (Anthology), to show you how both novels and short stories are referenced as sources. Yes, I am aware of the difference. You seem to be laboring under the persistent, wrong belief that I am doing these things out of sloppiness, when in fact I am conforming to the uniform style used on the site for the last several years. If you believe the prevailing style is wrong and should be changed, by all means, submit the suggestion to the administrators. But please stop acting as though I'm a careless idiot.--Proteus77 (talk) 21:27, 24 January 2016 (MST)
Those pages aren't typical. They were neglected and abandoned. No summaries were put in there, and they were left as stubs. There is no way to boast them as typical. Here are typical pages: [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18], [19], etc., not the empty stub pages that have templates denoting they are abandoned and need to be worked on. Midnight Sun (talk) 21:34, 24 January 2016 (MST)


Before you troll, YOU added in the Category Luna Wolves. You crossed the line before and you were warned. You crossed the line again. You need to apologize or leave. Midnight Sun (talk) 17:07, 25 January 2016 (MST)

I wasn't trolling. Please calm yourself down. As to the other, are you proposing that the "Short Story" category be abandoned?--Proteus77 (talk) 17:09, 25 January 2016 (MST)
Me calm down? You came to my page raging over something you did to cause problems and start a fight. You put that tag in there yourself. You have no right to act that way. If you want to add categories or wikilinks, feel free. The page was clearly being worked on so your actions here have shown a full willingness to lie and abuse others. That is not appropriate. You haven't added in real content in a long time, and what this incident shows is that you have a history of adding in broken and unfinished links because you don't care. This is not acceptable. Further, you did not apologize at all for being completely abusive and inappropriate. You had no right to come to my talk page, and it was even worse when it turns out that you did it. Midnight Sun (talk) 17:13, 25 January 2016 (MST)

Here is the deal--you stop harassing people, you put in plot summaries and fill in content, or you go. If you respond in any other fashion but to apologize and to agree to this, then I will push for you to be permanently banned because of your actions lately. Midnight Sun (talk) 17:14, 25 January 2016 (MST)

Then I'm sorry.--Proteus77 (talk) 17:15, 25 January 2016 (MST)
Thank you. I don't know why you decided that I am some sort of enemy that you need to chase after and abuse without cause. I am filling in content of this encyclopedia to serve as background for semi-academic articles I am writing for Larry Vela's site on important issues in the Horus Heresy series. As of now, the Lexicanum has extremely large gaps that make it impossible for it to be used as an encyclopedia. Only some of the pages are acceptable, with much being less than stubs. I have produced literally hundreds of pages of content so far in the past month trying to fix this, and I am still not even 5% done before the first of my articles can be launched. Having someone go through and causing problems for no reason delays from that progress. I have no problem with other people helping, and I have kept much of the language and content of others except when it is outright wrong (which was in a few cases due to putting new sources on outdated information). However, helping is through writing summaries, putting in background for the stories, etc., to make it so every Horus Heresy short story, novella, audio book, and novel can be searched and explored. [20] This is the kind of thing needed to be replicated for the major events, and there are many pages needing to be worked on. Most of the novels don't have summaries or even character lists. Midnight Sun (talk) 17:23, 25 January 2016 (MST)
I agree with you. One could argue that the pages shouldn't even be created until they can be written in full, but because (as you know) the content writing often lags far behind, I feel it's important to create at least a comprehensive index of the publications, and keep pace with the releases by Black Library. Please don't think I'm targeting you, or anyone else. I was just trying to maintain a stylistic uniformity over the site which is easy for other contributors to follow.--Proteus77 (talk) 17:32, 25 January 2016 (MST)
I understand the need for uniformity, which is why I tend to copy and paste from article to article to preserve similar setups. I also understand the need to have stubs and templates to be filled in. I was forced to make one for Pharos, though I do have half of a summary. Midnight Sun (talk) 18:54, 25 January 2016 (MST)

Planet's Categories

How do you think - do we need the "Category:Asteroid Belt" and/or "Category:Gas Giant" in Lexicanum? Though we have only few of the Asteroid Belts articles, they and the Gas Giants are an astronomical objects. For example, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune - are just the Gas Giants in Sol System, without taking into account another Gas Giants, mentioned in Warhammer 40'000. So... do we need them as Categories?--Darkelf77 (talk) 00:41, 28 January 2016 (MST)

Is this a poll? Because I know I didn't create those categories. I have no strong opinion, except that I have not seen enough articles to fill these categories.--Proteus77 (talk) 10:43, 28 January 2016 (MST)
Yes, I mean does we NEED to create them. Ok, I understand your opinion. Thanks.--Darkelf77 (talk) 11:27, 28 January 2016 (MST)


You created some much needed redirects today. Midnight Sun (talk) 14:06, 1 February 2016 (MST)

Your welcome, but I thought you didn't like redirects.--Proteus77 (talk) 14:10, 1 February 2016 (MST)
It wasn't the redirects but the removal of the books in the list to denote which of the four books each of the short stories was taken for so people would not have to click each and every one to find out. Midnight Sun (talk) 16:14, 1 February 2016 (MST)

Shield of Lies

Do you happen to have the audio book? If so, could you put together a plot synopsis? I do not have it yet. Midnight Sun (talk) 14:28, 23 June 2016 (MDT)

Sorry, I do not.--Proteus77 (talk) 17:31, 23 June 2016 (MDT)

Question - Arik


This is from the cover of The Outcast Dead (Novel). The cover has 6 space marine sized individuals who are not battling against each other. I don't understand how this image was selected to be Arik, a non-space marine, and I think the label needs to be removed. Do you agree? Midnight Sun (talk) 14:15, 5 August 2016 (MDT)

"In the depths of Terra's hive cities, a cowering astropath is guarded – or is he held prisoner? – by a group of Space Marines in a motley collection of scavenged armour. A unique and atmospheric Horus Heresy cover." Seems to support my suspicion. I'm going to remove it. [22] Midnight Sun (talk) 14:19, 5 August 2016 (MDT)
I don't know whether the identification should be changed, and would assume that Harriticus has selected the figure based on his reading of the book. In any case, I changed the category, not the description, and will not presume to know more or less than the person who uploaded it.--Proteus77 (talk) 16:18, 5 August 2016 (MDT)
I removed it from the Arik page due to the official description of the gallery print at the Black Library website. Midnight Sun (talk) 18:03, 5 August 2016 (MDT)

Source Tags

Don't put source tags on images of book covers. Not only is the source the book cover, book covers fall under fair use for re-use due to their free-licensing to sellers. The tag doesn't apply in any way. Midnight Sun (talk) 19:28, 20 August 2016 (MDT)