Talk:Hrud
Shifting the following note section from the main page to here. As the note about being wary of fanfiction could apply to every single page on lexicanum, not just the Hrud page:
Notes
The Hrud first appeared as a simple illustration of a 'Nocturnal Warrior of Hrud' in the diagram "other dangerous aliens", along with early versions of a Kroot warrior, Necron, Tarellian dog soldier and other minor species, in the 3rd Edition Rulebook.[4]
The Skaven are humanoid rat creatures from Games Workshop's fantasy counterpart game to 40k, Warhammer. Both races have a similar unkempt, crouched appearance, scavenger culture, and both are depicted as having rat-like tails; both utilize warp-plasma based technology, which appears archaic but is technologically superior to other, contemporary engineering - the Hrud rifle is a "fusil" while the Skaven rifle is a jezail (a musket) - and finally both seem to have similar social habits being described as living in warrens or similar underground tunnel systems.
It could be presumed that the Hrud were originally meant to be Warhammer 40,000 counterparts to the Skaven. With the exception of the Skaven, most Warhammer fantasy races have a counterpart in Warhammer 40,000. Incidentally, early Warhammer 40,000 rules included a toxin called rodotoxin which was effective against Skaven[7]. However, Games Workshop have never stated that the Hrud and the Skaven are parallel races, and supposedly GW wants to move Warhammer 40,000 away from its origins as "Warhammer in space."
It should be pointed out at this stage, that the reader should be cautious when regarding information given to them about the Hrud unless referenced to official material that forms part of the official 40K universe. Because of the similarities between the Hrud and the very popular Skaven, fans have generated much of their own material.
-- Maxx (talk) 23:29, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
I think the first paragraph with the image should remain within the article as it doesn't divagate upon their nature, and hiding it away is contrary to the policy of maintaining all information, no matter if outdated or contradictory. A bit of trivia that they appeared as that at first, and if someone muses that they seem to be like skaven, which they don't, it'd be on their own time.-- Brownpandanotgrizzly (talk) 19:59, 25 December 2023 (UTC)- EDIT: Although the image within the article according to the policy should be a cutout of only Hrud, since the rest of information is inconsequential. -- Brownpandanotgrizzly (talk) 20:04, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
- EDIT2: I'm sorry, somehow I clicked into a corresponding diff link from yesterday, forgot I wasn't looking at the current one unaware you made edits today and was under the impression that you just removed it utterly. Disregard above, except maybe image policy titbit, which is more of a suggestion. Sorry, if I annoyed you with my idiocy. --Brownpandanotgrizzly (talk) 23:34, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
- Also this image is an 'artefact' of old lore.--Darkelf77 (talk) 08:39, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry to confuse you Brownpandanotgrizzly, I did add the image back into the article but shifted it to a new section for Trivia. If someone can make a cutout from that image of just the Hrud that would be awesome. Darkelf77, I think it's debateable if the image is old lore, as the 6th edition rulebook also included an image with the exact same appearance. Although the 6th ed is still old, it's not as old as the 3rd ed rulebook. As a possibility for the differing appearances, 'Perturabo: The Hammer of Olympia (Novel)' describes the Hrud as having different castes - a soldier caste including ranged and melee fighters, but also as having non-combative castes. So it could be possible, although a theory, that both appearances of the Hrud are still actually Hrud but are different castes of the Hrud. - Maxx (talk) 18:19, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
- Well I mean exactly 3rd Edition of 1998, and there Hrud were presented in the first time as a illustration (and iirc the first time mentioned ever). So, it's definitely an 'old' lore :) --Darkelf77 (talk) 19:15, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
- The fault was mine, and to add to the discussion, we should be keeping even the ret conned stuff somewhere, outside the main body of the article, but somewhere, like the trivia for example. Also, I inadvertently used a word cutout when I meant to trim a rectangle containing the hrud, which can be done in any basal image viewer. I may easily do that, but given that I am not editing the article, I don't want to suddenly intrude, and I believe in others' abilities to use MS Paint. - Brownpandanotgrizzly (talk) 20:30, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
- I'm trying to collect Hrud sources to update the article :) It appears as though the 3rd ed original appearance of the Hrud has been partly retconned, but appears some of it been carried through. Such as other sources say the Hrud wear robes or cloaks, like in the 3rd ed image. And I think they still use musket-like fusils, like in the 3rd ed image. But them having rat tails seems to have never been mentioned again. Other sources describe their appearance as very different from the 3rd ed image. 'Perturabo: The Hammer of Olympia (Novel)' has the most info on the Hrud! I'm going through it, hoping to add it to the article :) - Maxx (talk) 06:47, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
Conflicting Sources
Further to the discussion above, I've updated the article to update the conflicting sources section. I've added the publication dates of sources, as a way of attempting to explain the situation of conflicting sources vs a retcon. It seems that the appearance of the Hrud hasn't been retconned, as the publication dates of the sources don't switch over from one appearance to the other appearance. There may be other sources which I'm not aware of and aren't in that list yet. I also added to the article an image of a model of an apparent hrud gun, a fusil. Hopefully I handled adding this in ok... as it's not clear that the model is actually a hrud fusil. But it very closely resembles the hrud fusil from the 6th ed rulebook, and apparently a hrud fusil is in Necromunda as a wargear option (I don't have the necromunda book to see). My own opinion is that both appearances are probably Hrud, just different types of Hrud. However, there're no sources to back this up. - Maxx (talk) 20:05, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- In the course of your edits, sources 1a, 1b e.t.c. have all been changed to source 1. Was that deliberate? KazilDarkeye (talk) 20:12, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- Yea deliberate :) As my copy of Xenology for source 1 is an ebook which doesn't have any page numbers. I also found some of the previously listed page numbers of source 1 was incorrect, ie much was cited as from 1b but looking at Xenology I found some info cited was actually from surrounding pages. Thought it would just be easier to take the page numbers out. - Maxx (talk) 17:45, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
