Hey there, I recently made an update to the Ultramarines page but due to not having used sources it was removed. The data in question stems from this page, http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Ultramarines and concerns the fleet disposition as well as a lot of serious backstory fluff on the Ultramarines. There are plenty of sources displayed on the page but unlike here, they do not have direct references as to what they source in the information. This is mainly why I did not add the sources. I believe the information on that page could make a serious contribution to our somewhat limited database on a Chapter as prestigious and well known as the Ultramarines. Could somehow help me transfer information with the appropriate sources?
- Arius Daemonis 9:11 GMT 08 August 2009
- DON'T use (let alone transfer) any material from other wikis! Plagiarism in the best, unreliable in the worst. Track the official sources, read them and write your own summaries of the relevant parts. --Inquisitor S., Großmeister des Ordo Lexicanum 22:44, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Ah, okay! Very sorry for that. I'll do my best to track down the sources and write a summary myself! Thank you for your assistance and understanding! -User:Arius Daemonis 2:02 [GMT], 10 August 2009
- 1 Ultramarines as third founding chapter
- 2 Fleet Details
- 3 Strengthening the Article
- 4 Ultramarine Successors
- 5 Ultramarine Movie
- 6 Noted Elements of the Ultramarines
- 7 Notable Battles
- 8 Citation Overhaul
- 9 Rites of battle pg 55
Ultramarines as third founding chapter
Has anyone else read WD#97. It is the first installment of the index astartes and the focus is on the ultramarines. Apparently the original ultramarines chapter after the second founding turned to chaos and were stripped of all titles and marking and banished to the eye of terror while the first year of M32 during the third founding a new ultramarines were founded taking over the heraldry of the original chapter. there is even a small hint at this in the 5E space marines codex at the table of original legions.
Really? I don't see any hint that mentions an "original" ultramarines chapter that went to chaos in the 5e codex. Can you quote it from the book? Oh, and don't forget to sign your posts with 4 tidbits! Munch munch 03:11, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
The fleet details here given don't add up. 31 Thunderhawks shared between 3 Barges and 8 Strike Cruisers would spread squadrons needlessly thin. --Sangre 02:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
- Unless you have a source to correct this there's no point in discussing. --Inquisitor S., Großmeister des Ordo Lexicanum 08:59, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
- To post on lexicanum it has to be staright from source. GW will probably have posted the relevant info in different places without cross referencing. On the other hand 31 Thunderhawks still transports up to 992 marines- all the company marines. It may not include thunderhawk transporters.
Strengthening the Article
Hi, I'm new to Lexicanum but I'd like to start contributing by cleaning up (as I see it anyways) the Ultramarines article. Before I make any changes, I'll post the ideas here so that they can be debated.
Known Descendants - Regarding Iron Snakes: I've read Brotherhood of the Snake, and the novel never explicitly states that Iron Snakes are an Ultramarines successor chapter. I feel the Iron Snakes article addresses this more accurately: "Although they pay respect to Roboute Guilliman, it is uncertain if they are an Ultramarine descendant, particularly as they are a non-Codex chapter." I'd like to replace Iron Snakes with Howling Griffons (which are explicity stated as being an Ultramarines successor chapter in the novel Chapter War).
Fleet Disposition - Regarding: "A Battlefleet Gothic article indicates that there are at least five Battle Barges, but the article is inaccurate on several other points and so has been ignored." I didn't find the Battlefleet Gothic article any more inaccurate than GW's normal level of contradictory fluff. Furthermore, the BFG article makes a good case for why the Ultramarines would have more than the standard compliment of ships (Ultramar is a larger realm than what most space marine chapters have sovereignty over.) I'd like to list the ships in the Battlefleet Gothic article as a separate list. Also, the latest Tyranid Codex reports Battlebarge Caesar as being destroyed by Hive Fleet Behemoth.
The Horus Heresy - Regarding: "When Horus finally declared his treachery against the Emperor, he had ordered the Ultramarines Legion to go to the Veridan System in Segmentum Tempestus far to the galactic south..." This should be re-worded--sounds like Horus ordered the Ultramarines to the galactic south after publicly declaring his treachery.
Creation of the Codex - Regarding: "...while Guillman and his supporters (White Scars Primarch Jaghatai Khan and Raven Guard Primarch Corax) went as far as to fire upon the Imperial Fists labeling them as heretics." This is misleading as it was the Imperial Navy which fired on the Imperial Fists.
Company Disposition - Regarding: "...Captain Antilochus, Chief of Recruits. Evidence in "How To Paint Space Marines" suggests a Captain Abraxxon may have succeeded Antilochus as Tenth Captain." This isn't so much evidence as it is someone making up a name to label a photographed miniature. I won't eradicate mention of Captain Abraxxon, but I'd like to use less leading language.
--Tranc 22:46, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
How is work on this strengthening going brother Codicier? --Arius Daemonis 14:36, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
I guess I was waiting for a second opinion, debate or concurence, etc., but since there was none I might see if I can edit the article tonight when I get home from work.--Tranc 01:58, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
Ok, I think I touched pretty much every section of the article. If anyone has issues with anything I did, feel free to voice it. --Tranc 06:42, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
- Some of your changes are missing a footnote. --Inquisitor S., Großmeister des Ordo Lexicanum 10:32, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
- Which ones?--Tranc 16:28, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
Can we get a reference for the Avenging Sons being a decendant of the Ultramarines Chapter? Thanks! --Tranc 02:09, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- Removed it, never heard or seen it. --Inquisitor S., Großmeister des Ordo Lexicanum 15:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I have just watched the movie, how do we take it? Is it canon? If it is, it throw's up a lot of questions about the 2nd Company.. Just wondering what other people think.. Should we change the Captain of second company? Is that how people read the ending? RishTablo 26th December 2010 21:40
- Hi. It is considered canon, we have an article for it if you want to add to it. As to the Captain of 2nd company, Sicarius is the current 2nd company Captain. Severus was therefore one of his predecessors. Thanks.--Mob 23:41, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah just noticed that they are two different Captains, I was thinking should we mention something about Severus dying on the planet & a Daemon taking over his body to open a Warp-Gate on Maccragge? Is that the spelling? Also do people read the ending of the film that Proteus becomes the new 2nd Company Captain?? RishTablo 27th December 2010 22:06
- You could certainly write about Severus on the movie page, it needs someone to expand it. Ultramarines - A Warhammer 40,000 Movie. Or give him his own page if you can make it more than a stub. I wouldn't write about him here as it's too specific and small-scale for the article about the Chapter history, though you could add him to the notable characters list, I suppose.
- Proteus becoming 2nd Captain is not made clear in the movie, so we can't add that as fact. If you were to write about him (either on the movie page or his own page if worth it) you could mention that he was last seen performing ritual duties previously seen performed by Severus, but whether he took over command duties and the rank of Captain is currently unknown. Thanks.--Mob 00:06, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Materials to be added upon template completion
Noted Elements of the Ultramarines
-Sergeants of the Ultramarines- Beliarius - Tactical Squad
References will be included upon editing
I don't feel that The Jorun Retaliation is a very notable battle for the Ultramarines. I suggest this campaign be deleted from the Ultramarines article because 1) the Howling Griffons were given overall command and 2) the Jorun Retaliation is already described in the Howling Griffons article using nearly identical text, but expanded.
As replacement, I suggest the following as famous Ultramarines battles & crusades:
1. Battle of Calth
2. The Great Scouring
3. Charadon Crusade
4. Damocles Gulf Crusade
5. The Battle for Macragge
6. Ichar IV
7. Tarsis Ultra
8. Black Reach
9. Fall of Damnos
10. Medusa V Campaign --Tranc 02:01, 7 December 2011 (CET)
- Thankyou Tranc. I've spent a little while adding the notable battles here as the space was very empty other than the Jorun Retaliation. I didnt want to delete it because it was one of the only battles already here. Some of what I have written really needs expanding, but It will suffice for the time being. Im still working on it and Ill definately do any more in this format. Thornblood 23:50, 18 January 2012 (CET)
- Do people think its worth creating a separate page for battles of the Ultramarines. The battle for Macragge isnt here, nor is the limited edition Ortan Cassius vs tyranids one from the Space marine battles series. Know No Fear is probably going to resolve the Battle of Calth into more than a sentence. And the Kairos Fateweaver book is slated to have a battle or two with the Ultramarines.Thornblood 01:33, 19 January 2012 (CET)
- Yes, the intention is to create an article like that for each major Chapter (see here for discussion on how all the Chapter pages are hopefully going to be arranged). The new article should probably be called Known Engagements of the Ultramarines, and all the minor battles from the main page should be moved there, with only the truly important ones left in the main article (Battle of Maccrage, Ultras vs Hive fleets etc). If you want to make the article that would be great :) Thelemur 01:49, 19 January 2012 (CET)
I did a major overhaul to the citations; to help you follow it, this is what I did:
- (1) separated the list of sources into those that are cited in the body of the article, and those that aren't;
- (2) eliminating general or duplicative source listings (e.g., Ultramarines (Novel Series), or listing Battle for the Abyss (Novel) as Sources 5 and 19 alike); and
- (3) re-organized the sources to try to group similar sources (codices, novels, games) together.
Re-number everything to match, and it's done. What do you think?--Proteus77 23:31, 18 May 2012 (CEST)
Rites of battle pg 55
- Ultramarines Successors
- The Primogenitor Chapters that were formed when the Ultramarines Legion was divided are amongst the most celebrated and well known of Space Marine forces, especially in the regions of Ultima Segmentum, the Eastern Fringe and those sectors bordering the Ultramarines’ autonomous realm of Ultramar. The majority of the First Founding Successors closely follow the doctrines laid down by Roboute Guiliman in the Codex Astartes, regarding adherence to its dictates as an act of devotion to their Primarch and to the Emperor. While it is not unusual for Successors of a given Progenitor to retain links with one another, the “First Born” Ultramarines Successors maintain far closer bonds with theirs than do many other Chapters. The home worlds of many of the Primogenitors are located in Ultima Segmentum, and even those with realms on the opposite side of the galaxy send representatives to the Fortress of Hera, the Fortress-Monastery of the Ultramarines. There they confer with the Lord Macragge himself, coordinating the Primogenitors’ wars, as far as is possible across such a vast area of space, across the entire Imperium. Many Battle-Brothers of the Primogenitor Chapters aspire to undertake a pilgrimage to the Shrine of the Primarch within the Fortress of Hera, within which the mortally wounded Primarch himself sits within a glittering stasis field. For the Battle-Brothers of Primogenitor Chapters based in Ultima Segmentum, this aspiration is relatively achievable. For those such as the White Consuls, based in Segmentum Pacificus in the galactic west, such a pilgrimage might see a Battle-Brother separated from his Chapter for many decades and undergoing all manner of battles and adventures on his journey.
- The Ultramarines Legion was crusading on the far side of the galaxy when the events of the Horus Heresy brought the Imperium to the very edge of disaster, and as such played less of a part in the defeat of the Warmaster’s forces than other Legions. In order to mitigate the chances of such a situation arising again, a number of the Primogenitor Chapters contribute individual squads to a standing force stationed near the Eye of Terror known as the Ultramarines Honour Company. Service is the Honour Company brings great distinction to those who undertake the arduous duty, and they often return to their Chapters changed, having maintained their vigil at the very brink of the Cadian Gate and faced unknowable terrors. Many Honour Company veterans go on to serve in the Deathwatch, for they rank amongst the most dedicated of their Chapter’s warriors.
- --Ashendant 21:07, 26 May 2012 (CEST)
- I need help with this because this is one BIG article, so any suggestions on where to put this information would be great.--Ashendant 21:23, 26 May 2012 (CEST)
- A difficult one. The part about the honour company can go into the "Organisation" section - there is already a heading for it just no actual info yet. The stuff about the primogenitor chapters is more tricky I'd suggest either -
- In the "Organisation" section, after the "Chapter Disposition" stuff
- In its own "Primogenitor Chapters" section placed after "Organisation" or "Recruitment"
- Make a Primogenitors page and have a link to it. The Lemur 22:11, 26 May 2012 (CEST)
- I put it after Geneseed because it felt appropriate(successors are all about geneseed). But you can change it if you want. i'm done with the Ultramarines successors.--Ashendant 23:43, 26 May 2012 (CEST)